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We are of course building this community so one may ask: why setup another website? A few reasons. It's nice that this website is actively being developed but when you start from scratch it's gonna lack a lot of features that other softwares already have. An important one is the ability to create a real sub instead of just tagging your posts. This encourages users to manage and build their own communities instead of getting assimilated into a frontpage. I realize work is being done in exactly this but I'm simply the type to take an existing software package and set that up. Another reason is because it's fun. And the timing for this is right because Redditors are still looking for a decent alternative. I will get flack for that but I try to see the good in people. I believe we can get the good people from /r/redditalternatives and that will be a good basis for a new community. Digg setup a new community recently. That's on hold for technical reasons but the point is: this sort of thing is in the air right now.
Here's the thing: it isn't up to me to do the community building / social aspect of it right now. It requires a lot of dedication while I have different priorities currently. I will have to build the community to a degree, of course, but by myself I cannot put in the required time for it. Are any of you guys interested in building a new community?
I was thinking of using a software package like HumHub or a containerized Reddit / Saidit instance.
Yes. X0X7 wants this to be a tech and self improvement site. He hates politics. This place is dead.
The r/conspiracy spin off used to be a thing. I liked that Matrix was it's own thing but now everyone is trying to make it their own instead of enjoying it for what it is. That ship sailed and so did I. Best of luck with your various ventures.
I'm confused.
Can you define what "it's own thing" and "make it their own" means?
Or maybe more to the point: What is it you want?
Perhaps we can start a Conspirophile.SubMatrix.net thing or something.
x0x7 str8 up says this place is for tech and self improvement. He told Drewski that to his face. Dont put your hopes in another m7 that has incredibly different goals than yourself.
Read it: https://goatmatrix.net/c/MatrixDev/BXCmxLDH2r
Your comments aren't fair. One can discuss politics here, as before.
This place is so quiet because there are so few users, rather than less politics.
I've mentioned before that there are ways of recruiting users from Reddit.
As for Larry's question, you'll recall that he said the same at Saidit for 6 years, inviting users to goatmatrix. This worked especially when Saidit croaked, 6 years into Larry's almost daily attempts to get Saiditors to leave. Are we to expect another 6 years of Larry asking Matrixers to leave?
First, it's not necessary. Second, it's a dumb idea. Third, the few people who are here should commit themselves to the site because it's got potential. Fifth, starting over again with another website will fail.
Wrong. It is necessary, not dumb. All eggs in one basket is folly. SaidIt is the perfect example of failure.
We must support this much better run potential. And we can do other things.
Fifth, starting over will only fail if we fail to plan.
It was time to plan a long time ago. Now is the second best time to start.
How should we start? Start by discussing what we'd want to see happen.
First of all, it's not six years. I first started lurking Saidit around six years ago and neither this site nor Rabbit Hole existed.
Secondly, I'm trying to avoid the same kind of splitting of a small community. I'm not trying to get people to post to another site instead of this one; I'm looking for people who want to build a new community that will afterwards be advertised on Reddit or other places with more exposure. Will those initial community builders then stop posting here? I don't know. I don't see why people can't post to multiple sites especially if they're small communities. The web has become so centralized partially from our own habits of only visiting a single site. We can decentralize the web by visiting multiple, utilizing webrings and allowing users to promote their own websites. I didn't make this post out of hostility toward this site. That was different for Saidit, it had been a sinking ship for a while and if we migrated before it went completely down we could've salvaged posters like zyxzevn who probably doesn't even know we're here now.
Thirdly, you're gay.
If/when we're ready, I'll help advertise with a bold campaign, press releases, and a planned outreach to specific influencers. (We can be developing these while x0 is improving this site.)
Ironically, SaidIt's culture and management was lacking, while Matrix lacks some important features and branding, at present, but can be fixed.
The worst thing would be to "launch" something that's not ready.
A first impression will stick with folks, long after things evolve.
No need to rush.
Not until all the ducks are in a row.
When I feel it's ready I'll go hard. Bigly.
A proper launch will get a huge influx of new users and big problems to face.
This same thing applies to my LeverMind Variety Show to feature some with Santa Libertas episodes. I can talk about it, but I won't proper hype until it's ready. If I didn't have 99 projects and no money, I might be further along. Such is production development, for web or media.
Well it feels like 6 years, or 12...
But drawing attention away from the current community is how you split a small community.
Which would be dividing one's activities between this site and the other site, which makes both sites smaller and weaker because nobody wants to spend twice the usual time on social media.
I think we already use several social media websites simultaneously.
zyxzevn and others are still at the other social media webites and can be invited to goatmatrix, though that will require regular posts and comments at the other sites that welcome users to goatmatrix, the Saidit (nee Reddit) alternative.
Could be that your accusation is an admission.
Indeed: I admit that you're gay.
Let your freak flag fly: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-big-questions/201106/homophobic-men-are-aroused-by-gay-male-porn
Get a room.
So disappointed to both of you.
I'd resort to name-calling too - but I'm not a bitchy fagay.
A very kind suggestion, but I don't want to break Larry's heart. 🤪
It doesn't surprise me one bit that you read that website. Psychology today? More like sockology today.
Im quoting x0x7 globalhomo. It's not fair of him to lure us in with the promise of freedom, and then bait and switch us into (((tech))) and (((self improvement))).
You seem to have an old habit of oversimplifying everything. We've seen a lot of political discussions here at Matrix, even if it's not x0's cup of tea. I didn't downvote you, BTW.
Im not telling anyone to leave. Im telling Jason that this isnt a political site.
I should test this idea and post some Epic Fury Israel/MAGA pro-genocide pics of Lebanese kids burning in white phosphorus.
socially pressures you to care about self improvement and not WWIII
:D
I've been consistent from the very beginning. Since before the saidit migration. During the saidit migration, I was consistent. While encouraging yougurt stains and others like him to leave, I've been consistent.
Jason Carswell just thinks I haven't communicated the intent of the site because it's just his default loop of "we need to plan and communicate our intent." He's a planner, not a doer. It doesn't matter how many times you've already done both of those things; he will say the same thing every day. It's his default loop for contributing. Start from the beginning and coordinate. If it were up to him, we'd be starting from the beginning every month.
A bait and switch would be if I didn't communicate these things. But I have, every single week. Graphics on the site indicate it. This is a tech site, not an asshole pit. I've said it every single day for months.
I 100% have been consistent. No bait and switch has happened. I've even said and encouraged that if an uplifting website doesn't sound interesting to you, step out the door sooner than later. How many admins will encourage attrition? I have not been inconsistent or baited and switched anyone.
The problem is that user activity communicates too. It communicates stronger than I can apparently because I can say the same thing every day and have people think the site or the intent of it has changed. It hasn't ever. But shitheads don't care what a site is for.
But the thing that kind of pisses me off about Zom leaving over people ignoring the intent of a site, is that he nor anyone ever downvoted these shitheads. Free speech + a site that has an intent, doesn't work without downvoting. But no one will do it.
If you want a positive site, stick around. If you don't want a positive site, don't. If you want a positive site, you have to downvote people who enshitify. Because if you don't do it, then it forces me to be an asshole to get the outcome of a positive site. And then it isn't a positive site. So downvoting things that aren't aligned with the plan is mandatory. Please consider doing that before leaving.
News and politics can exist to the extent it doesn't eclipse the primary content of the site and doesn't attract PAA (performatively abrasive assholes). If there is PAA activity on the site and users are encouraging them, I narrow the scope of the site to just its core.
It's true - I love to plan.
You can plan too much and you can plan too little. Balance is needed.
I'm also a doer.
If anything, I'm stretched too thin doing too much.
I don't know what this stuff is about restarting every month is.
I don't see responses so I do repeat.
(Messages remains broken and unusable until I can control what is read or unread.)
Branding is communication.
Matrix's branding is very weak and ambiguous.
Video production is communication.
I just edited a friend's video last night.
Yesterday I was working on my studio.
(I have it very well planned out.)
I just hosted a freedom party two days ago. Great turn out. I'm very active locally. We'll be having regular meetings again soon, in the new studio/community center. Unfortunately they're even less tech-savy than I am. And classes. And a newsletter.
I still keep two VPS's and the two sites going.
I don't know what you'd like me to do to officially be a doer.
Learning to code is not in my wheelhouse, but I do have some skills, experience, and resources. (Advertising, branding, graphics, media, etc.)
Please, communicate it clearly.
I don't think there was ever any bait and switch.
I like the uplifting stuff, within balance. I think geopolitics and resistance-analysis can also coexist, within balance. Perhaps we can aim for more solutions-related, DIY, and maker-culture stuff too.
Maybe you have been 100% consistent, and I was just misinformed or had the wrong impression about this place. Here's what I have noticed as a new/potential user of this site:
this is not the libertarian West. now I know.
I have added more elements to communicate stronger. It is libertarian. It's Hoppean. The terms of service doesn't forbid that because it assumes the libertarian approach to those problems, of solving those problems culturally. At least trying it first. I'm telling you that PAA behavior isn't welcome, not banning. That's called social signalling. That's libertarian as fuck.
But what I'm learning is that the anti-social right lacks the social development to pick up on or consider social signals. So I might have to add things to the terms and use moderation (which I don't want to do) if I can't get users to help me amplify that social signalling.
The question is how do you do something libertarian and actually acheive Saidit's goals or Voat's initial goals. I have more in common with M7's goals or Atko than what their sites became. You can't do it without social signalling. And I've been doing it this whole time. But I need other people to do it with me or go the completely non-libertarian route. Because you PAAs are dense as fuck.
Yes Im a performative asshole. I also added some very nice posts to your site and helped to grow a commumity.
Im glad that you are learning and finally established a site identity and new policies 2 months ago. Best of luck.
Cutting a userbase of 10 in half and shitting on political posting is an interesting choice.
It's higher than that. I have to do it to be able to grow. I can't grow until I lose really about 1/4th. But I'm willing to throw some babies with some bath water because if I can't get the site to a place where it can grow there is no point. I have to slow down to change lanes. Some people forced me into a lane that will go slow in the long run. Turning sites into ones that can't grow is what PAAs do. You enshitify every place possible if given freedom. Freedom should be a good thing. I'm very pro-freedom. But it can either lead to something good or something bad. And 80% of the right, the dumber half (I am right) has decided that enshitifying platforms is somehow a good political strategy. Well I decided, at any cost, I'm not associating with these dumb fucks. The blue wave is going to happen, because of people like that. And we're going to get all kinds of communism because of it. Thank goodness we have the retard-right to help pad our numbers. Big thanks.
Projects can't afford to have PAAs on their site without being dead in the water. No platform can. That's why the right gets censored. The internet isn't as anti-right or anti-white as you think. They just can't afford to have assholes on a site they want to be welcoming. And the right and pro-white decided their brand should be asshole. It doesn't have to be that way. But if you chose something different then maybe you wouldn't fail. But you need to fail because you need to be a victim group just like all the victim groups on the left. You are no different.
BTW, on the pro-white side. Jared Taylor, David Duke, Jason Kone. All really nice guys. The only people who ever accomplished anything decided not being an asshole was the only option. Voat is just the swastika on a side of a synagog of the internet. All it does is serve the exact opposite of its stated intent. Now go there and join the rest of the self-defeting asshole pit.
So fuck me for wanting to run a positive site that helps people grow. That maybe teaches some of the meta skills needed to avoid these traps. If I want a space like that I guess I'm a bad guy.
I agree with almost everything you've written, but would add that I think PAAs can follow rules much of the time and help with the site. I don't think they should be permanently banned most of the time. They can get warnings and temporary bans. Many of us can at times be seen as PAAs, though it's not necessarily the intention. I've been attacked by them and many times and woudl agree with you that there has to be some limit to the toxicity they can bring. In many cases, I've also had no significant problems arguing with PAAs, and I've wanted to know more about them and it seems they tend to support authoritarians while assuming that they're not doing that. Free speech social media helps me converse with them at a time when politics are more polarized than in the previous century. One of the main reasons we would visit a free speech site is to argue openly about the most difficult issues of today, without being banned by others who are controlling their favorite narratives on those sites. If the baby is thrown out with the bath water, I think it's not helpful for a free speech website.
^
You are built to argue with them. Most people don't want to bother. I haven't banned anyone for being a PAA. It's too subjective to be an actual rule (but we could get there if we can't solve the problem with different methods). I've just communicated consistently they aren't a cultural fit for the site. But I need other people to replicate this so they are getting consistent messaging.
I'm ok with freedom of ideas. But I've realized that certain people abuse that concept to really communicate no ideas at all. So I want the place to be civil enough that I could invite anyone on here, like normal people. Any idea can be communicated civily. But some people don't only not communicate in a mature way, often they aren't even trying to express an idea. They are trying to demonstrate to a crowd that they are an asshole as a kind of signal they fit in.
And I think there is a place for that. But if that's the definition of what fits in here then I can't invite normal people. Only more assholes. So I really need a person demonstrating that they are an asshole to get zero social milage.
Mosh pits exist, and they can be fun. But not every venue on the planet is a mosh pit. Even at a concert most of the space isn't a mosh pit. And real life doesn't have moshers trying to turn every space into a mosh. Grociery store, coffee shop. Other venues should be able to exist on the internet, and if we want an internet with less censorship and over use of authority then we need a setup where we can simply communicate "Ah, I see what you want to do, that's a different space. Have fun doing that there."
It's not so much that I don't like politics. I'm pretty political myself. It's that I've decided what the venue is and I'm trying to communicate it to reduce confusion. And I'm having a hard time establishing the space as that venue given the speghetti pull that comes with politics for people whose main activity is arguing on the internet and trying to be offensive. Perfectly fine things. But that is a different venue from this one.
So applying the concert analogy. If I'm having some trouble with some of the crowd that can't pick up on cues and its all out of management. And even the people who aren't the problem are encouraging the people who are. Then maybe I just book classical artists for a little while. Get some rhythm going with the crowd what the space is like. And then we can incorporate more varied content after. And maybe threatening to go to classical bookings only will get some of the crowd to realize they could skip these annoying steps if they just help.
Anyways, I'm about to write a social "rules" page in a bit. Not enforcable like the terms of service. But to help collapse onto a single description of the intended culture and behavior on the site. This all comes down to communication, and I'm working on making that go smoother and more consistently so there isn't confusion.
The other advantage to swithing to only tech and self improvement is that it would be so boring to people who only exist to argue and offend and have no other depth. Then when the site is only people interested in those topics, we can talk politics among ourselves. It's an immune response. Your first immune system layer should be your diet. But it is optional. If you don't take that option a different layer has to do the job. The first layer of a site's immune system should be the users. But it's optional if they feel like doing it or not. But if not, we'll need to find ourselves cycling a fever every now and again. I need users to be an active part of the immune system or I'll need to initiate a fever. And it will be more clear what's meant to pass and not after I write that thing.
OK - agreed - I appreciate your thoughtful attention to these matters and the website, and I am not just saying that. I suppose we'll see more hostile people in due course, and we could remind them a few times to rethink their approaches. In my view, the simpler social media rules are the best.
BTW, I think Larry said he worries that zyxzevn doesn't know how to find goatmatrix. One could message him here: https://www.reddit.com/user/zyxzevn I also think Zom will return, as he always returned to Saidit.
And perhaps there can be more efforts to recruit from other websites.
For many years, I've said:
As few clear hard rules as possible, with as many guides and examples as necessary for the grey areas. The Pyramid of Debate was not rules, but a good basic guide needing examples.
I pinged zyxzevn on Corbett Report a month or few ago. No word back.
Is he still active there? It could be he neve read it msging him on le reddit (homo gathering) might be worthwhile.
Im sorry that I correctly called out your bait and switch. No need to personally attack me. Very low pyramid man.
Take more vitamin D and macha to get your mood right.
Thanks!
I'll check it out.
x0x7 is not perfect, none of us are, but he's certainly no magnora7. Not even close.
I still have to read "About" and the "SubMatrix" idea.
"GoatMatrix" implies either ex-Voat goats or Greatest Of All Time.
I don't know why we can't also have TruthMatrix, SeekMatrix, FreedomMatrix, LibreMatrix, VeritasMatrix, PravdaMatrix, or something.
What do you recommend?
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife...
Where do you hang out?
Here I guess :/ I lurk a few other places.
You're leaving? Damn. Sad to see you go. You're a father if I'm not mistaken so best of luck fathering your child and of course you're welcome to at least pop in here now and then. There's a weekly movie night although they're hard to catch here in Europe.
Yes!
All the eggs in one basket makes an easy target.
I just don't have a lot of time for a lot of baskets.
Decentralization/distribution is great - but has limits and issues. I was 1000% for decentralization until a year or two ago x0x7 explained in a brilliant paragraph or few (wish I could search comments, not just posts) what many overlooked issues are.
Subs = metatags/topics/categories + groups/communities + filters.
I don't see any difference.
IMO, just tag everything, create groups, and make customizable flexible filters to manage both.
Network:
We'd need something like the Fringe Deplorables Web Ring and we'd need a way to cross-post in different communities, whether it's a browser add-on an in-site option or something like the Fediverse.
HumHub:
x0x7 already set up LeverMind.net with HumHub.
Larry and x0x7 agreed to be co-admins. Now that SaidIt is gone and good folks are here, I'd welcome them too. I have a short simple list of criteria to follow somewhere, simply because it's my name paying for the site and when TPTB come at me the problems need to be minimized or focused.
We'd need to finish the documentation (outdated wiki-page) before it opens. x0x7 has spawned and demonstrated some fantastic ideas that must be incorporated into my chaotic outline.
d3rr had set up a Lemmy instance in Docker on my VPS#1. I don't know if it was finished or what was left to do.
Both are years old, as is Projex.Wiki, and may need updating after backing up.
The Lions' Den:
I'm busy building a studio to shoot content in, The Lions' Den, and host freedom meetings, classes, etc.
LeverMind:
One of the creative projects I'm developing is the LeverMind Variety Show (outdated wiki-page) that can help promote LeverMind, GoatMatrix, WikiSpooks, Corbett, and all our favourite sites.
I'm excited because I just bought a bunch more gear, including a Canon R50V!!! If you need a fancier camera then you've either had it before 2025, are a professional, got money to burn, and/or should probably be working on improving the many other aspects of your production.
IMO your post should have been in /s/Projects.
Oh cool. Are you open to launching something before the documentation is done? I know you like a carefully planned thing. I'm actually just looking to advertise something on /r/redditalternatives that has user created forums without overthinking. Anything freedom focused can be its own group or set of groups on the same website while letting random Redditors discuss their hobbies on there as well. The idea being that this way they get exposed to the information. If we're in charge of whatever hub people use, then we cannot get banned from there. But the hobby / entertainment portion doesn't have to wait for the kind of planning you have in mind. I don't mind if you're in charge of policy, I know that I align with your goals.
Edit: oh yeah and I need the SSL certificate to be fixed. I'm offering to do it if you don't mind giving me access to the VPS.
A man failing to plan is a man planning to fail.
In war all the plans go out the window.
We're somewhere between.
We have to have a plan, a foundational constitution, and adapt and evolve as necessary, and always have those founding documents to keep us generally and ethically on track. (FOEPATCHISM)
That's one of the few things I need.
Also:
I may have forgotten a thing or few, but not off theme.
That may seem like a lot, but I think it's rather simple. Over-explained, again.
None of this is new.
I still have to finish a LeverMind logo, branding, and style guide. These will be necessary for the LeverMind Variety Show too.
The SSL can be addressed too. I want to switch VPS servers (I forget where too - was more free, practical, and cheaper IIRC - I saw it in a post likely by you comparing the "freedom" hosts about a year or more ago), and email service to Tuta too. Not sure we can do this before April 1st. Most likely before July 1st. (I currently pay for two VPS's every 3 months.)
All of my stuff needs to get super-secured before any LeverMind shows are released. I hope for great success and fortune, but know the odds are against it. Nonetheless, whatever the voice and reach, shouting truth to power is an invitation for them to try to stomp us. My security has been loose. I must tighten up, with practice. No point making it easy for them.
I'm shaving my beard this week so I won't be shooting as Santa Libertas for at least half a year. I'll have time to focus on all that, building sets for the studio, writing, and online projects - like this. Before/during this big inevitable crash into the Greatest Depression.
Sounds good. I'd rather have folks request a sub for curation, our TrustedTeam review it, and either permit it or suggest improvements. SaidIt sucked terribly for infinite subs, badly spelled, missing capitals, redundancy, etc. If people feel they need their own sub on the same topic, they're seeking power when they should be cooperating. If their views are that different then it should fit under a different topical title. Starting small, we should stick to topical subs, and besides a TrustedTeam sub, communities can develop later. Folks may eventually convince us, the TrustedTeam, when to start new communities. (Example communities: SaidItOnce, SubMatrix, WikiCurators, WindsorFreedom, WindsorMedia, WindsorNepal, etc.)
Good point. Politics creeps into everything though. And inevitably it may escalate.
Planning is not terrible.
I believe your ideas, x0x7's, and my goals align too.
I don't like being the head of this, especially being nearly blind to the technical aspects, but it is the state of these things. I've laid out all this to keep me comfortable moving forward.
M7 had his way. x0x7 has his way. I have my way. They're all experiments to learn from.
If D3 and x0 are good with it, and these few outlines are followed, you'll get access.
Maybe it was Kyuun but that one's out of order.
It's a good point. The thing is that people are encouraged to build their own communities when they have the feeling of agency and independence. They shouldn't have to ask us for permission. It'd be cool if some software allowed user-created forums, where they could edit the sidebar and pin threads, but not delete content. Instead they'd just have to report it while admins are the only ones who delete content. I'm not sure if that'd scale however.
It's different roles for different people. We could do some of the technical aspects while you're in charge of policy.
There was a table with many hosts and various pros and cons. There was no clear leader, but there were some with more liberty and security.
It's not about asking for permission, it's about keeping the entire site respectable. If they don't like it, they can build their own site. I won't host a free-for-all chaos zone just cuz freezepeaches.
Indeed. Unfortunately this couldn't be any other way with my limitations. Hopefully it's fortunate that I'm keen to be as fair and open to doing things collectively and differently with foepatchism and voluntaryism at the core of our agora phylaxis.
There are a couple of open-source Lemmy-like reddit alternative projects now in case you want to look at them:
https://joinfediverse.wiki/PieFed
https://joinmbin.org/
I didn't try them, but people mention them on /r/redditalternatives all the time.