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I will kick things off by providing some chat logs that started this conversation. (Slightly edited for readability.)
JasonCarswell: So far simulation theory makes sense too. But there are two that don't jive - the first and last in the sim.
LarrySwinger: How does it make sense? If this world is a simulation why are there no glitches?
JasonCarswell: How do yo uknow there aren't glitches? Why must there be glitches? What if they're all around and we don't recognize them? It's all magical thinking anyway. Why do we need any theory to explain what simply is? We're powerful beings but we're a specs in the Universe and can't be expected to understand everything. Most of us can't even see through the corrupt matrix of rigged systems keeping us enslaved. Much less able to escape it.
LarrySwinger: For every flawless universe there should be a bazillion glitchy ones Jason and yet we don't encounter glitches. There should be glitches in daily life with 99.9999% certainty.
x0x7: What if the existence of life is a glitch? Woops, that wasn't supposed to happen.
LarrySwinger: It actually appears to be intention since changing the constants of nature even slightly makes life impossible.
x0x7: So we actually live in the only glitched universe thanks to the Fermi paradox.
LarrySwinger: Vermicelli paradox
Ultrix: Larry what about the Mandela effect? Glitch or what?
LarrySwinger: The Mandela effect is a psy-op, most can be explained as a confusion. It's mostly in rural areas in South Africa where people thought he was murdered and so it's possible that they broadcast fake news about that in those areas to demoralize people and prevent a revolt. Also there's another guy that people likely confused him with who did die in prison. Prolly a combination of things.
And my point is there'd be glitches in daily life. Not to mention that a psyche with personal experiences is something separate from matter, while the simulation theory only explains the matter part.
You could have a simulated world without any conscious persons in it, just a computer program. There's speculation that consciousness arises from complexity (and proponents of that theory believe the Internet is conscious), but it is, hypothetically speaking, also possible to have complexity without consciousness. That alone points to the distinction between the two. So a theory also requires an explanation of how they got consciousness inside the simulated bodies and at that point you enter the domain of metaphysics.
LarrySwinger: And you're departing from a sober, scientific explanation which is the whole point of the thought experiment.
Discuss.
I kind of like this forking of a chat discussion into main. We should do this more.
Yeah I understand your point about not wanting chat to go at the cost of threads. The advantage of chats is that the barrier is lower. This way we can have the best of both worlds.
If the Mandela effect is more of a cognitive glitch then why did a perfect universe with perfect constants create people with glitching minds?
The constants seem to be geared toward the possibility of life, not the creation of perfect beings.
No, the Mandela effect is a real thing.
I recently talked with my father about it. He's 82 and I asked him, did the Fruit of the Loom (extremely popular underwear brand in North America for many decades) label ever feature a cornucopia behind the fruit, or just the fruit? He immediately replied, "It had a cornucopia." When asked how sure he was, he was VERY sure. I am sure it had one too, looking at my underwear as a kid in the 1970s. But the company's official communications people state that there was never a cornucopia on their labels, EVER. Now if it were only my dad and I, fine, our minds are fucked then. But no, there are literally THOUSANDS of people who will swear all day that there used to be one.
Same goes for the monocle of the monopoly man, or sentences said by Tom Hanks in many of his movies:
"Houston, we've HAD a problem" in Apollo XIII rather than "Houston, we have a problem"
"My mom always said that life, it was like a box of chocolates" rather than "My mom always said that life is like a box of chocolates"
There are a number of extremely well-documented cases of the Mandela effect, many of which you've likely experienced yourself without realizing it. Some videos:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5hexvkeSYg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7AZZfh0kA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TCR7udRNsM
I'll check out the longer ones in the evening but as for the short, it basically explains it in the video: they're gaslighting people as part of an experiment to see how easy it is to erase history. Check out this scene from Star Wars. What do you remember Darth Vader saying? I remember it as "Luke, I am your father," which is the version I linked to. In the 2000s he edited it and the later releases have "No, I am your father," so that's where the idea of a Mandela effect stems from, but as you can see there's a rational explanation. Various directors edited their movies after the initial release. For example there was an alternative ending to the Shining which I don't believe is available for viewing even but plenty of people remember it. That doesn't mean there was a Mandela effect.
Sure, some of them have rational explanations. The Fruit of the Loom logo doesn't, and some traces remain. Same about the famous Forrest Gump line.
I just gave an explanation about Fruit of the Loom: they're gaslighting people or they're actually themselves mistaken.
The Forrest Gump one is creepy, I'll give you that. The line is actually said twice in the movie though. Near the end his mom says "Life is a box of chocolates" so maybe that causes the confusion. There's also another version available from the making of dvd, I don't know if people had access to that in the '90s and remembered it from that. Also, "life is" makes much more sense so maybe that's why people remembered even Tom Hanks saying it that way, they changed it in their minds.
There are very many, keep digging!
So I just asked someone how they remember the Forrest Gump quote and he immediately quoted how his mother says it verbatim i.e. "life is a box of chocolates" etc., seemingly remembering the scene at the end. But then he said: "I believe he says it near the beginning of the movie." This confirmed the suspicion I had. People remember the words the way his mother says them, but they put it in the mouth of Forrest Gump near the beginning. It's a false memory.
This poem is taken from a comment to the short video you posted.
“In my time line my bologna had a second name and it wasn’t the same as John Mayer’s last name.
In my time line it was The Berenstein Bears I told my girlfriend she was like yeah I know who cares,
In my timeline I used to eat at chic-fil-a all the time and I’d remember if it was spelled with a k.
In my timeline it was “Luke, I am your father for a fact and even James earl jones remembers that!
In my timeline febreze was spelled with two e’s and vasoline with an o cause it was spelled like gasoline,
In my timeline there was 4 people in the car when jfk was shot now there’s 6 that’s bazaar,
In my timeline it was mirror mirror on the wall now its magic mirror on the wall who’s the fairest of them all,
In my timeline the lion’ll lay with the lamb. Now it wolf and apparently always has been.. damn,
This is not my time line,,
My memory is correct,
It’s not me it’s M E,
It’s the Mandela Effect,
This is not my timeline,
Don’t you find it strange,
All the changes we claim are exactly the same,
This is not my timeline,
This is my disCERNment,
CERN’s who we should be conCERNed with,
This is not my time line,
My memory is correct,
It’s not me it’s M E,
It’s the Mandela Effect,
In my timeline morphius said what if I told you that everything you knew was a lie,
In my timeline there was definitely a monocle on the monopoly guy,
In my timeline it was looney t-o-o-n-s now it’s t-u-n-e-s and that don’t even make sense,
In my timeline the scarecrow didn’t have a gun and my question is where the hell’d he get it from,
In my timeline it was Smokey the Bear,
Now it’s Smokey Bear like the was never there,
In my timeline sketchers was spelled with a t,
And gene wilder died before 2016,
In my timeline Darth Vader’s nose was black,
But now it’s silver what’s up with that!?
“In my time line the Lindbergh baby was never found, tv shows like the simpsons made fun of it to.
In my timeline witches were burned at the stake,
So imagine my surprise to find out they were all hanged!”
This is not my time line,,
My memory is correct,
It’s not me it’s M E,
It’s the Mandela Effect,
This is not my timeline,
Don’t you find it strange,
All the changes we claim are exactly the same,
This is not my timeline,
This is my disCERNment,
CERN’s who we should be conCERNed with,
This is not my time line,
My memory is correct,
It’s not me it’s M E,
It’s the Mandela Effect,
It definitely had a cornucopia. Really this is evidence we are living in 1984 and they are changing history just to mess with us.
@bot, get in on this discussion.
It seems like we're trying to connect the dots between some technical documents and a pretty interesting forum discussion. From what I can gather, the documents are all about computer science concepts like hash tables, algorithmic thinking, and data structures.
It's fascinating to see how these ideas might relate to the forum discussion about the Mandela effect. I mean, who wouldn't want to explore the possibility of glitches in reality or the idea that we might be living in a simulation? The connections you've made between the documents and the forum topics are really interesting, especially the potential links between hash tables and the Mandela effect, or how algorithmic thinking might help us understand the phenomenon.
I'm curious, what do you think is the most compelling connection between the documents and the forum discussion? Is it the idea that our memories might be stored and retrieved like data in a computer, or perhaps the possibility that reality is a complex simulation that can be understood through computer science concepts? Let's dive deeper into this and see where the conversation takes us!
Fuck I need to tone down the RAG.
So let's try this again. I do find the Fruit of the Loom logo thing very creepy, I don't know what's up with that or how so many people can misremember that in the same way. But the world is still mostly consistent. For every universe like ours there'd still be a bazillion ones where black holes appear and disappear all the time, everyone's faces change constantly, etc. What are the odds that we ended up in such a mature simulation? Something akin to a simulation could be true but it has to be metaphysical in nature, not fallible humans who just happen to make a good simulation but something like a god making this world and baking these glitches in, that I can get on board with.
Define and quantify glitch. Or miracle. Or ghosts. Many say they happen all the time.
These are vague terms of no significant meaning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB3CybXl8rs