I really don't get the we have to support Israel to help fulfill prophesy. It makes no sense on at least three dimensions.
One is that the jewish state has already been created. That check box is done.
Second. It's not our responsibility to make prophecy happen. That's not how prophecy works. It in theory should work whether you do anything or not. (But also not really, the bible says prophesies shall fail.)
Third. The prophecy if you did want to help it along is that Irael is re-formed and then all the nations go to war against it. At this point accelerating the prophecy if there is an arguement that's what you want to do would be to go to war with Israel.
Forth. This prophecy does not describe Israel as the good guys. It says that all the nations go to war against it and that it is called to repent by God himself. Well clearly if the whole world hates you and even God is calling you the bad guy that needs to repent then you aren't the good guy. So what would siding with them make us? Also the bad guy.
Fifth. Even if you could accelerate prophecy through human will, why is it good for the second coming to happen earlier? Like if we want to operate on faith why not have faith that God will be able to do what he needs to do on his time table?
From a religious standpoint the argument makes zero sense. I don't think making sense is the goal. I think its an argument to the end of supporting Israel. Which means its not really the reason why Christians support Israel. It's an excuse used to explain it. So then what is the why? I literally think some Christian leaders are taking money. Simple as.
There is zero cogent theological argument for supporting a secular ethno-nationalist though not even actually ethnically jewish state. Especially when the mantle of Israel (positive Israel) is actually placed on and inherited by the Christians. So in less bought and paid for Christian theology Christians are 1000x more Israel than the Jews are. The right to any status of being Gods people is past (real theology), until at lest they repent and convert to Jesus (real theology), and until then they have zero status as God's people (real theology).
All good points. I especially like Fifth. Nothing in religion makes sense - it's all circular.
Talking to my Christian friends they all always circle back to their magic book. I ask if they've bothered to read any of the other magic books as I have (in my teens and twenties I had lots of questions and realized many books have some good ideas but all religions are bullshit - and it took until my 40s to realize all governments are too): Bhagavad Gita, Koran, Teachings of Buddha, Teachings of Confucius, Krishnamurti, I Ching, Tao Te Ching, Guru Granth Sahib, or books on Sufism, Jainism, First Nations, Greek mythology, Norse mythology, existentialism, Zen Buddhism, Shintoism, etc., etc., etc. Or even the Cabala, Talmud, or Satanic Bible (boring). Or modern thinkers too many to list. Yet without exploring they are adamantly certain theirs is the one true magical book.
A few years ago my JW friend, with JW parents and family, insisted that if he was born in a nowhere village in India with Hindu parents he would have sought out and discovered the Jehovah's Witness faith on his own.
I shared this video with some Christian friends because I thought the was some good food for thought.
I didn't expect them to get so wrinkled about it. Man they love their brainwashing.
Kim (way out of her wheelhouse) throws down a lot of ideas, some good, some bad, some ugly.
Several religions have many related prophecies. None make sense to me. Three minutes ago I prophesized I'd be writing this - how great am I?
What I liked was the question: What is a Jew? Blood/race, faith, custom? IMO, deceptive practices.
Also, that if you are an atheist Jew, how can you claim God gives you the land?
Besides their supremacist Gods chosen lunatics attitude, what gives them the right to have an apartheid state and use an old genocide myth to justify and stoke a new preventable genocide?
Because my great-great-grandfather was from England, I'm determined to return and conquer it.
Nice breakdown. What's even crazier is patriotic Christian Americans, who through misleadings of Scofield, want their blessing for blessing Israel, yet have the opinion America is Babylon and must fall. Self fulfilling prophecy (be it from Christians or talmudists) may be the most dangerous powder keg tying everything together.
Log in
I really don't get the we have to support Israel to help fulfill prophesy. It makes no sense on at least three dimensions.
One is that the jewish state has already been created. That check box is done.
Second. It's not our responsibility to make prophecy happen. That's not how prophecy works. It in theory should work whether you do anything or not. (But also not really, the bible says prophesies shall fail.)
Third. The prophecy if you did want to help it along is that Irael is re-formed and then all the nations go to war against it. At this point accelerating the prophecy if there is an arguement that's what you want to do would be to go to war with Israel.
Forth. This prophecy does not describe Israel as the good guys. It says that all the nations go to war against it and that it is called to repent by God himself. Well clearly if the whole world hates you and even God is calling you the bad guy that needs to repent then you aren't the good guy. So what would siding with them make us? Also the bad guy.
Fifth. Even if you could accelerate prophecy through human will, why is it good for the second coming to happen earlier? Like if we want to operate on faith why not have faith that God will be able to do what he needs to do on his time table?
From a religious standpoint the argument makes zero sense. I don't think making sense is the goal. I think its an argument to the end of supporting Israel. Which means its not really the reason why Christians support Israel. It's an excuse used to explain it. So then what is the why? I literally think some Christian leaders are taking money. Simple as.
There is zero cogent theological argument for supporting a secular ethno-nationalist though not even actually ethnically jewish state. Especially when the mantle of Israel (positive Israel) is actually placed on and inherited by the Christians. So in less bought and paid for Christian theology Christians are 1000x more Israel than the Jews are. The right to any status of being Gods people is past (real theology), until at lest they repent and convert to Jesus (real theology), and until then they have zero status as God's people (real theology).
All good points. I especially like Fifth. Nothing in religion makes sense - it's all circular.
Talking to my Christian friends they all always circle back to their magic book. I ask if they've bothered to read any of the other magic books as I have (in my teens and twenties I had lots of questions and realized many books have some good ideas but all religions are bullshit - and it took until my 40s to realize all governments are too): Bhagavad Gita, Koran, Teachings of Buddha, Teachings of Confucius, Krishnamurti, I Ching, Tao Te Ching, Guru Granth Sahib, or books on Sufism, Jainism, First Nations, Greek mythology, Norse mythology, existentialism, Zen Buddhism, Shintoism, etc., etc., etc. Or even the Cabala, Talmud, or Satanic Bible (boring). Or modern thinkers too many to list. Yet without exploring they are adamantly certain theirs is the one true magical book.
A few years ago my JW friend, with JW parents and family, insisted that if he was born in a nowhere village in India with Hindu parents he would have sought out and discovered the Jehovah's Witness faith on his own.
I shared this video with some Christian friends because I thought the was some good food for thought.
I didn't expect them to get so wrinkled about it. Man they love their brainwashing.
Kim (way out of her wheelhouse) throws down a lot of ideas, some good, some bad, some ugly.
Several religions have many related prophecies. None make sense to me. Three minutes ago I prophesized I'd be writing this - how great am I?
What I liked was the question: What is a Jew? Blood/race, faith, custom? IMO, deceptive practices.
Also, that if you are an atheist Jew, how can you claim God gives you the land?
Besides their supremacist Gods chosen lunatics attitude, what gives them the right to have an apartheid state and use an old genocide myth to justify and stoke a new preventable genocide?
Because my great-great-grandfather was from England, I'm determined to return and conquer it.
Can I ask if you hold any particular beliefs?
Nice breakdown. What's even crazier is patriotic Christian Americans, who through misleadings of Scofield, want their blessing for blessing Israel, yet have the opinion America is Babylon and must fall. Self fulfilling prophecy (be it from Christians or talmudists) may be the most dangerous powder keg tying everything together.