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I'm mostly happy with how I implemented this. I nearly just did exact match, which is what most of these sites use.
I decided to use kind of a lazy scoring method that makes adjoined words being found in the text go to the top.
It's still not perfect. It currently isn't sub-sorting. Ideally it would sort by age or score/age or apply the user's custom sort. It's also currently matching word parts. 'Protest' will satisfy the query of 'test'. The other thing I would like to do is implement this in C so we can have better scalability for when the database gets large.
Now the question is whether or not to make it available only to signed in users. I wouldn't mind feedback on this, especially from my co-admins.
I've also been playing around with a number of different ways to style it. We'll have to find something to settle on. I might make another big poll.
Awesome.
I'd make the search more flexible / not exact. On Saidit for example I can never find the old posts I'm looking for by memory. Maybe exact matches can be shown on top so a relevance scoring but imo more results shown = better, it will take a while before a site has so many results that it becomes overwhelming.
I'd prefer it if as many features as possible become available to guests as well. There are so many websites people need to sign up for already. I know signup is very easy but let's just not bother them with it as an unnecessary requirement. Go for the 4chan feel.
Yep. So it's not exact match currently. It counts the number of sub-queries it can match.
4chan is not a good aspiration - unless you're specifically talking about their search function.
4chan already exists, as do others. We don't need another. We can do better by being something new, different, and unique. That's the only way to stand out (until others copy you).
Unrelated:
Can we know who voted, up and/or down?
I'm not understanding some of the recent selective isolated downvotes.
This is not poal. I'm siding against it. Downvotes are not a bug. Especially not here where they work differently and move things away from each other in vector space.
IDK, maybe you annoyed someone somehow? ¯(ツ)/¯
I agree, keep them anonymous.
Why?
Other forums don't hide them.
It would make it easier to find vote tampering.
Even Facebook lets you know who.
So when it's a like it's nice if the name is displayed. Are there public dislikes on fecesbook as well, though? Idk it feels weird. It's negativity so anonymity seems more apt. Lest people will take a dislike to heart and it starts affecting friendships.
Facebook offers more than just like/dislike. Happy, sad, love, angry, etc. Better to gauge us on.
Before the 3 trolls showed up I was always curious about the odd occasion when I'd get a downvote. I wanted to ask whoever why? Is it the subject, quality, creator, or whatever. Unless someone starts nasty I try to always take "negativity" as constructive criticism to learn from. If folks on GoatMatrix don't like some of my posts I wouldn't want to keep posting stuff like that here, even if I really like it. It doesn't help anyone and only wastes time and energy.
Just don't let them discourage you your posts are great.
Appreciated, but I don't need more shit in my life.
I'm going to take a break to be more productive in other realms.
That makes sense when you're good at many things but I just wanna say that this is part of what we're doing. What exactly are you taking a break over, getting mass-downvoted once? It's something so minor in my observation, he's already quit doing it. Anyway you do you. x0x7 and I will continue in the meantime and at one point you'll join us again then I suppose. We all have different things we're dividing our attention between.
I'm not against downvotes. I'm against anon users with multiple aliases manipulating scores. That's where being accountable for your voting record would be of benefit. If it grows to where there were too many votes to count you could turn off the display-who-voted feature. Also, knowing if Larry already voted I wouldn't need to @LarrySwinger.
As I said in chat:
If there were timestamps, messages, and/or comments that I could scan through I'd show you the 3 conversations, civil one moment abrasive the next, with people who resort to twisted nonsense and noise, but I've lost patience. I don't know about Poal or Voat because I voided them intentionally but these three are determined to drag this place into the gutter. Freedom of expression does not include freedom of noise and slander to cause harm to this site or users.
It would also be a nice option to be able to search for a URL or part of a URL.
For example "l3yeo0Gccxw" is a YouTube.com or YouTu.be video that might also be mirrored on BitChute with the same video ID, etc. Or search "CorbettReport.com" to find all the link-posts and comment/text-post mentions.
It would also be nice to know when posting if this "l3yeo0Gccxw" video had already been posted, under what title, and under what subs. Perhaps with an option to "revive" that post (ie. reorder or maybe even re-timestamp it - NOT create a new post with new comments, better IMO to have all relevant comments centralized).
YAY!!!
(Now maybe BushChuck can find his manners.)
So you created your own search feature/engine? Neat.
Why avoid utilizing and reconfiguring an extant FLOSS search with lots of features?
What would be the advantage of limiting search to only signed in users besides coercing lurkers to sign in?
Aesthetically, why are the Create, Sub of Now, Search, and Chat all separated (space wasting)? Please consider unifying the sidebox. Try it for a couple weeks. Take a vote to keep it or lose it.
Project proposal: Add another sidebox section: "Goat News" with a "Newsletter 2025-01" link (updated monthly) that goes to a text post that can be co-edited by the co-admins (should all be in the 3rd person) to cover important news, information, updates, projects, etc. and whatever is important or in the best interests of the users to know. This might also develop content useful to aggregate on wiki-pages (About, FAQ, CSS, Themes, How To, Monthly Archive, Stats, Top Stories, Guidelines, etc.). Of course folks would be welcome to discuss everything and more in the comments. If necessary it could become weekly.
@LarrySwinger Is anyone else co-admin? What do co-admins even do besides have a badge?
The open source solutions for search are built for high scale systems and usually need to be built on a completely different dedicated server. It's not really a reduction of complexity compared to hand coding it. Administrating an Apache Solar instance is a full time job.
Insights good to know.
Don't know what an Apache Solar instance is. I was thinking of Presearch, Xearx, Yacy, etc. and that it might search/scrape/archive only sites we deem important and/or worthy. And it might be good if we each hosted an instance in a decentralized network. Then both the platform and the sites and the search service could all be cross-promoted, hopefully inspiring others to co-host too. Easier said than done.
Nothing. We're like those cops that just eat donuts all day.
I would have you guys moderate, but there is nothing to moderate. That's how over-moderation starts. A site deputizes moderators, they think "I'm a moderator. I need to be moderating something." Then they start looking for things to moderate.
I'd like to set up an editor to let you guys toy with the templates and css files.
I agree. I only ever "moderated" spam on SaidIt. We don't need moderators.
However, I think we still need open discussions towards action to ultimately address and resolve problematic behaviour. From this we may develop habits, written or unwritten policies, strategies, and a civil forum culture.
The abrasive culture of noise and slander is not just a timesuck when I'd rather have productive discussions, or be productive elsewhere, but it also makes me want to just quit. You can't effectively create in the midst of chaos and you can't optimally organize resistance to tyranny when fighting subversive infiltrators. Folks are welcome to reasonably question my actions or motives civilly, but they're neither reasonable nor civil. They need to shape up or someone leaves.
@LarrySwinger, @HighQulaityDickPics
I think you're letting it affect you to much. If you're around reasonable people, they will ignore any obvious slander against. You're free to ignore it too and continue the constructive discussions. What slander have you run into?
I refuse to do SaidIt 2.0 with even worse asstrolls. It's been a breath of fresh air not to have to deal with retarded web dwellers with no lives or ambitions. But it seems that is over.
I don't need more shit in my life.
Reasonable people don't fling or thrive on poo.
If there was a bigger userbase I might even care about them now fucking with the votes, but the audience of 4+, now 7+, is not worthy of me giving a shit.
This is not my site and I'm no big deal, but it makes me sad that these asstrolls (maybe bots) are ruining a potentially good forum - and even worse that @x0x7 is making the choice to have children determine the culture of his forum.
Either they go or I go - and I'm fine with either. I just need to know if this crapfest will continue or not.
@LarrySwinge @x0x7 @JasonCarswell
I agree with all of this. I am also a lazy, lazy boi who loves free speech. However, i dont think the flame war between bushcuck and dwb benefits the chat box. They may want to bicker back and forth, i want to post one or two quick links to what im working on and talk to you guys about what you are working on. Its hard to do that if there is so much needless bloat.
Thinking about it, i suggest a white/black list for users in chat. that way if someone doesnt want to interact, boom.
I vote against. There's ignore on IRC and it's a big mess, people will be confused when a person they put on ignore is involved in a conversation. My preference is that we tell morons to kill themselves until they're gone.
That won't work. They persist thriving on the attention. Don't feed the trolls.
Meanwhile the rational people have already noised off.
This is one of the reasons why I never wanted to make the chat the star of the show. When we had very little traffic we needed the posts to make the front page look active. And as we grow past a certain size the chat just becomes drama. There's a reason why reddit doesn't have a global chat. It's really a very specific size that a global chat is even useful. Apparently we've already grown past it.
I did add the blacklist idea to my large task list.
I've been getting more traction on movie nights with the voat folks, and I've always feared the lesser half of their population coming to this site and shitting things up. The problem with niggers is they never know they are niggers. That includes the white ones. There are so many pro-white whites that have no idea they are wiggers. It is the more niggerish whites we've convinced to be pro-white. Convincing the more refined of the whites has been more of a challenge. And so guess what voat is. There is only one Jared Taylor for 100 tatted up drunk retards who think their special because they can do basic pattern detection. It's not enough to see a problem. Actually develop as a white person.
I had hoped that the post content would be less interesting to the drama queens. I do believe that on the net, technology's structure does shape what culture dominates and attaches to it. The goal was to make eu-social technology in its form rather than through authoritarian moderation. The chat has created a nucleation point for the very things we dislike. The premise of this site really was the idea that having posts in a vector space would have a eu-social effect. So I was hesitate to add and grow a feature that didn't have the same properties. It's one of the reasons why people kept asking me to improve chat and I kept saying no. Chat being more of a social lightning rod vs posts is not a positive for the culture of the site. That was the point I was trying to make to iSnark that he wouldn't get. "But timestamps are more better". So if it took effort and other things take effort but have competing value, then I was going to do those first. If you improve a gun that shoots the enemy better but it makes you hated and makes you lose the war then it doesn't have strategic value, is it really an improvement? This is the point I was making with chat. An isolated improvement is not always a global improvement.
Now I like to add a lot of things to my task list, even things that are even as small as a 20% consideration. So I'm going to add several things.
Add optional blacklist to goatmatrix chat
Add hover over to goatmatrix chat usernames with a block button
Add a block button to user profiles
Add seperate block post and block chat buttons to user profiles
Remove chat from goatmatrix front page for a while
Make sure to spend some amount of the day telling dwb and buckchuck that they are faggots and their arguing is a form of carnal interaction and the fact that they want to spend their day doing that with other men demonstrates some similarity with homosexual culture. And that a nigger doesn't know they've niggified a place because they've only ever seen niggified places due to their own presence.
Declare that posts are a free speech zone but chat is a privilage. Act like a bickering nigger get treated like one. Aka tossed.
Remind dwb and bushcuck the private chat exists
Make it so people can remove the chat or collapse it on goatmatrix and have the site remember the preference
Invite all the most argumentative members of matrix into a private group chat with me so they can have their argument orgy in a private setting
Remind dwb and bushchuck that they can literally get a room since goatmatrix has private chat
Pull a poal and put a homosexual tag next to the names of dwb and bushchuck in chat
Make chat start un-expanded to reduce its popularity and push traffic toward posts
Most of those are not serious considerations but I keep them bouncing around in the list till one day the time and the necessity lines up with a task re-appearing in a pull sample. I tend to side with the most simple one though. That might be putting chat in general on a cool down. It's not a necessary feature and turning it off for a week disengages the people who only want drama because chat is the place they go to first. And BushChuck actually makes good posts. We would like him if chat didn't exist.
I almost want to like BushChuck because he does seem to be smart and has good opinions and awareness of things going on in AI. Technical aptitude is something very valued here. But I just wish he had better manners. Being offensive isn't inherently wrong. I just wish he could learn how to say hi to people instead of shitting on them out of the gate. That actually might make him likable. I believe in growing human potential and growing social development. No one is prefect. This is one of the things I want to be different than current-voat. Current voat is a place where people get torn down into something less than themselves. I think a free speech environment doesn't have to be negative or a contest for being negative. I'm really more interested in making something like original original voat. Like fresh out of the whoaverse days. Where actually interesting and intelligent people interacted instead of just edge lords.
The real question is on dwb. What does he offer? He just brought his gay argument lovers with him for an argument orgy.
I like bushchuck. He's smart. I just wish he wasn't a homosexual who likes arguing with men.
@JasonCarswell @LarrySwinger @dwbbb @BushChuck @iSnark
Thanks for explaining so much so clearly. (magnora7 rarely ever even tried to explain anything and usually left us with more questions and angst than answers.)
I'd be happy with a invite-only group chat or a chat with a moderator's eject button.
Blacklist/block needs to have an asterisk, expando, icon, or something to let folks know there's more happening.
Anyone can watch movies any time. That group movie thing is neat in that folks can chat and upload and influence the playlist. It's a neat toy but not much else. It's not even hosted on GoatMatrix to be a draw.
I don't even know why you want Voat (or 4chan) users. There's a whole universe out there with more than ever appreciating freedom of discourse (not noise). Don't dredge the gutter hoping for treasure, be the change and make the G.O.A.T.
I don't see what race or supremacy has to do with anything. Everyone who thinks they're supreme is delusional and potentially dangerous to freedom and humanity, especially currently (((God's chosen lunatics))).
New to me: "Eusociality is the highest level of organization of sociality. It is defined by the following characteristics: cooperative brood care, overlapping generations within a colony of adults, and a division of labor into reproductive and non-reproductive groups." ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusociality I'll add it to http://Projex.Wiki/wiki/Terminology after this. I'm geeky up to a point and then my brain zones out, but I'm generally better with broader concepts, creative trouble shooting, organizing, public relations, and creative expressions - whatever caste that casts me into. Neat concept, but I'm not sure it applies well to GoatMatrix.
Timestamps critically let you know if chat, comments, or posts are recent, relevant, and worth engaging - or if you'd be wasting time and energy talking to yourself never to be heard. I get the analogy, but timestamps are more than just a hateful weapon.
Good point. But hard to prove before hand. When in doubt, or even when confident, put it to a poll.
That's how d3rr and I did early at SaidIt. Even bad ideas can inspire or fold into good ones.
I'd love to see more hover over info and options. (ie. Hard time/date on posts and comments. Custom options. Themes. What does this feature do? Etc.)
Every blacklist/blocklist/mutelist should be editable. (chats, comments, posts)
Public shaming is ineffective to shameless flamers seeking attention.
^ This is progress.
Problematically, posts and comments are more permanent than ephemeral chat - and they're just as bad there with their lies, slander, gutter culture, and forum harm.
Any chance we can have titled group chats? (ie. "Civil Chat" with a basic rule: Aim high on the debate pyramid or you get 3 strikes and be muted for a day, second time for a week, third time for a month.)
A Goatse with a fag tag will brag.
"Traffic." This might work with more users. Being able to read all the comments chronologically, regardless of sub or post might redirect towards posts. It may also bring the problems with chat if asstrolls respond to all the comments for LOLs.
You haven't addressed vote manipulation/vandalism.
Might be a good policy in general - yet allow private group chats. We can conspire with select users for civil discourse and they can try to recruit as many drama victims as they want. This doesn't fix comments, posts, and vote tampering.
He has been civil in chat, but usually isn't. He's not impressing anyone yet seems compelled to fail proving he's not beta.
Offence is generally taken not given - but I disagree when asstrolls are intentionally abusing their freedom of speech to maliciously provoke with no means, ends, nor productive good to come from it. They aren't even very creative nor imaginative. Define "offensive" and "wrong" and to whom.
They are bringing that culture here. I've tried to avoid getting pulled in, but have mud on me now too. That's why I won't continue.
Maybe I'm ignorant of the good aspects of the original Voat but I was never impressed with what I saw. I imaging a lot of folks may have said the same about SaidIt. There was so much garbage - but I tried to ignore that to focus on the good. IMO, it's time to shed the past and invent something new without the baggage and comparisons - or simply join others that are already having elevated discourse and worthy of contributions - such as Silk Road (closed), QxR (closed), Activist Post (now Charlie Robinson-owned of MacroAggressions), Autonomy (Richard Grove), Truth-Freedom-Health (Dr Shiva), Librti, Unjected, WikiSpooks (Robin), etc.
Same as Chuck. He has been civil, but usually isn't.
I haven't seen much evidence of this intelligence you speak of. Just the worst aspects of Asperger's.
Getting dragged into stupid drama is demotivating.
@LarrySwinger @HighQulaityDickPics @Tom_Bombadil @iSnark
I'm not reading the entire discussion as it's tl;dr, not reading Jason's comment on the same level as this one in full for example although I did read your comment. As an alternative of what he proposed there of making chat invite only I would like to propose that it becomes like an IRC network where anyone can create their own channel. Why reinvent the wheel anyway? Just embed a mibbit chat! I had one on Rabbit Hole. So there will be one (crowded) main chat but if some people don't get along they can always splinter.
Missing the r on @LarrySwinger. He knows now. Also @x0x7.
Bloat is one thing. Drama between those two is one other thing. But they're lying and name-calling at everyone, not just in chat - and manipulating votes.
I've never liked the block on SaidIt because it was incomplete. I like the idea of block, but you should also know if/when someone blocked has responded in case you need to respond to the liars, and to be able to know when there is further discussion with blocked and unblocked people that you'd otherwise miss.
Critically, more than all that is the culture this permits. As bad as Reddit but different. Welcoming "free speech" asstrolls is welcoming abuse and harm to the site. They simply don't give a fuck. I'm bothering to explain all this because I care and want build good things - and if I, and maybe others, disappear you might understand why. Good people will be alienated from this nonsense. Potentially better people than all of us won't endure this crap for free abuse, free noise, free speech, or whatever you want to call it.
Besides Silk Road and the closed QxR torrent forum, I hadn't bothered with forums until truth-seeking I came upon the promise of the new SaidIt in 2018 - but magnora7 turned out to be a fraud in most of the ways that mattered. I would like GoatMatrix to succeed but I won't endure this crap, especially since 2018 I've learned of much better communities already extant, including the ones I mentioned in these comments as well as others (most listed on Projex).
I didn't come to GoatMatrix to fight anyone but the ruling class.
@LarrySwinger @x0x7 @JasonCarswell
i think the last line of jasons post encapsulates the general feeling between us 4. We are here not to fight each other, but to equip ourselves with the abilities to fight our owners. I like x0x7's wall of text because it states the intent of the website, being a place to cultivate the self to preserve things that we think are special. Maybe i am misunderstanding xir, but that was my take away.
This echos a classic question about the necessity of violence to preserve a peaceful community; which of course parallels to bans and stuff. The thing about this place is that currently, the users here have ambition, drive, and talent. Big things can come from that. Especially if the user base pushes other up instead of pulling others down. And that i think is why i dont like the dwb/bushchuck war. From what i see, the bandaids are black list and other features for a component that x0x7 doesn't want to be a main feature. Which, if that is the case, then why dev specifics for a component that isn't a priority? Larrys suggestion of telling them to fuck off is sound, valid, but also the opposite of dev'ing specifics for a component that isnt a priority. I think both approaches aren't the best, maybe there is a middle ground, i dunno.
Could we like.. ask nicely?
Agreed!
"Violence" or "defense"?
We didn't start the abrasive gutter dwelling.
Communities are justified to drive out the (((smut peddlers))) to protect their children and themselves. This is not much different.
Well stated. Cultivate these plus freedom plus DIY (including all the fields of geekery, regardless of stupid sanctions) - not Voat culture.
Agreed.
They aren't nice and don't care. Consistently. Even if they improved their behavior most of the time we'd all be on eggshells all the time wondering what would set them off. Like this my dad was a dick with bipolar and it made my family miserable. (Probably why I'm so against unearned authority and power corruption.)
@x0x7 @LarrySwinger @Tom_Bombadil @iSnark
"Now the question is whether or not to make it available only to signed in users."
The better option would be to make it available only to signed in users for two reasons:
1.) It makes content less available to external bad actors.
2.) It motivates non-members to actually create an account to protect accountability.
Sweet!